A reasonable Reason for Brexit

It seems my country is being consumed by the debate over the referendum result. Friends are falling out, families are divided, and the polarisation of opinion has rarely been seen in my lifetime. This is more than falling out over a vote. Much more than ‘agreeing to disagree’ about a point of view. There is […]

via Brexit: The new Civil War — REDFLAGFLYING

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35 thoughts on “A reasonable Reason for Brexit”

  1. As you know, I have had my focus on this side of the pond of late and hadn’t paid as much attention to Brexit as I did a year and a half ago. But when I saw this post, and after our earlier ‘chat’, I decided to read it and get a feel for what is going on over there. Pete’s post stopped me in my tracks, for that post could so easily have been referring to our own situation with Trump. The list of insults and name calling, loss of friendships, divisiveness and polarization. You guys have as much angst as we do, yet I had no idea it was this bad. But more, I also realized that I am guilty of applying some of those labels that Pete listed to those who support Trump, and reading Pete’s post, as well as some of the comments has given me pause to step back and take a closer look. I said back in early 2016 that I thought I would have sided with the Remain team, but that given it wasn’t my battle, I really had no right to speak. I still feel the same, but I see so many similarities, and while my sympathies are still with the Remainers, I see the angst of the others too. This is not a two-sided issue, nor is our own, but both are multi-faceted issuea with far too much greed, rhetoric and poor planning involved in the result. I did not read all the comments, for they were many and lengthy, but I read a good many, including your exchange with Pete. I’m glad I read this … on the one hand, it does make me stop and think about my own sometimes vitriol, but on the other, it reinforces the very disturbing notion that this ‘populist’ movement is seriously dividing not only the U.S., but others as well. The U.S. and UK will not be the last, I think.

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    1. Pete’s post is very heartfelt and as he is in the same part of the political world as me I can imagine his frustration. Like young accusing all ‘Old People’ voting for Brexit, when Sheila & myself voted to Remain, principally for our children and grandchildren. No struggle is ever clear cut.
      All we can do is listen to the more rational arguments of the other side and pile in on those who use Hate, Ignorance and a little known problem Naïve Simplicity.
      It’s a complex world Jill.

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  2. I probably should keep my keyboard shut on this subject but… I support the leavers. I’d do this in any country, anywhere when some people think, enough of this bloated and bloating big brother business. Enough of trans-this and trans-that treaty. The more power accumulated in the less hands, the more the earth is going to hell; the more debts mount. The EU, when all is said and done and properly seen, is a re-working of old European empires. It’s the same “royalty” conjuring up a new state of power and control. In my opinion, every “smaller” group: nation, race, clan, tribe, should be given their freedom to do things their way, dealing with their own “subversives” if you will, in their own way, as was done long ago, before the royals, the “nobles” and the elites turned ordinary people into slaves, serfs, indentured labourers, prostitutes and beggars.
    I’m an avowed self-empowered individual. I don’t need church, kingdom, nation, empire, to tell me how to live my life. I see no good reason for the existence of any collective. Someone “accused” me of being an anarchist. Well, if that’s the only way to gain freedom from exploitation, oppression and attendant endless bullshit, yes, I’m an anarchist. The people of Britain aren’t necessarily sheep or slaves. Surely they can take care of themselves. The collapse of the British Empire didn’t end the nation and neither will the dis-empowerment of the new “royals” installed in Brussels. Let them eat their sprouts and let the British (or is it English?) people enjoy their tea and whatever… crumpets?! (That reads like a musical instrument: “We’re having the rehearsal today, like now, did you bring your crumpet?”)

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    1. If you really want to cause a rebellion in Britain threaten to take away Tea…but anyway.
      When I analyse all the various political movements and the cause and effects of nations upon nations as well as the artificial strifes generated by inter communal hate I have to admit…’Hmm maybe the anarchists have a point’.
      There again when one is a Hard Left Socialist with too much knowledge about Human antics through the ages, I do get kind of conflicted.
      Can one be a liberal, catholic, Keynesian, Stalinist?

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  3. Roger, I am not going to get into the emotions and civil discord, which is important. My main concern is from a financial perspective and the belief by financial experts that Brexit would be dilutive to the British economy. What we have already seen is companies who housed European headquarters (or distribution centers) in Britain either move to a Eurozone country or have contingency planning to do so. I would love to see an active process used to explore ways of remaining in the EU, but garnering protections for local workers who are on the opposite end of growth.

    To be frank, this is an issue for other countries as well and will be heightened, not by trade agreement changes or EU relationships, but by technology improvements. There are fewer jobs that can be fully protected by technology gains. I remember a quote from a Chief Financial Officer in the book “The Rich and the Rest of Us.” He said “If an employer could get away with no employees, they would.”

    So, we need to consider more actively than we are in any country how to retrain workers for the jobs of the future. Just because we can reduce human jobs, does not mean we should. People’s lives depend on it. Somebody has to pay for the goods and services.
    Keith

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    1. Any era where there are not sufficient jobs the old saying ‘The Devil Finds Work For Idle Hands’ comes into play. It would seem to be that there are still many jobs which require manual labour, which in turn will require sets of skills, which brings in another old phrase ‘The Dignity of Labour’
      If people have work, are paid well and appreciated for whatever they do then it is fair to assume there would be higher levels on contentment.
      When you consider the amount of infrastructure renovation is required in many nations then it would seem there should be enough work.
      Of course this would require a very strong element form Governments of telling large corporations ‘Look. You are going to have to do a bit more of what we tell you to do, then everyone will be content’
      It may sound naïve but the current free-for-alls and the continued manufacture of nebulous amounts of capital are not sustainable.

      Liked by 1 person

      1. Roger, my son is revisiting his future employment. He has never been too keen on desk jobs. At this point, I can only make suggestions. I took a different tack this time and suggested looking at jobs that will always be needed – electricians, HVAC maintenance, plumbers, dry wall, etc. The folks who do our HVAC maintenance, for example, have a terrific paid training program that leads to working with an experienced technician and then more on your own. They make nice money and it is an honorable and needed profession. I would hate to be starting out right now, especially if the jobs aren’t there for what you studied for. Keith

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      2. That would be a wise move by your son.
        In the UK going back to our grandparents and earlier it was common advice by a father in the ‘blue collar’ community for his son to ‘get a trade’ eg carpenter, plumber, bricklayer for much the same reasons.
        Although you may study for one path Life can take some interesting twists:
        My eldest daughter studied Drama; she is now a UK registered midwife; my younger daughter, English she now works in retail in charge of ordering for a store; My son Media Studies and is now a supervisor at a food warehouse and earning good money. That said each bring something they learnt in their studies to their lives, so nothing is ever wasted if you apply it.
        Far wider and longer distance thinking is needed amongst leaders. I suppose this is where my Left Wing side comes in, a mobilisation of the work force, for we are currently in a war against decades of profligate waste and greed.

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  4. Hi Roger! I just wanted to drop by to say how much I miss chatting with you! I started a new job and it is taking a lot of my time. I often wonder how you and the wife and kids are doing and I always say a prayer that you all are well! Much love and light to you Roger.
    -Gwin

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    1. Hi Gwin! 🙌
      Lovely to hear from you. I hope the job is working out for you.
      I dropped off the radar for a while as I got heavily into getting ‘Of Patchwork Warriors’ finished, kindled and even with its own cover (yea!). Although despite five re-writes typos still snuck through and another WP friend is checking it out for me, so there will be a 2nd edition. It was a fun and surprising ride with all sorts of things happening I hadn’t planned on.
      Anyhows by the time I got around to catching up I could find your posts but WP wouldn’t let me leave comments just ‘likes’. So I’m very, very pleased you got in touch.
      We’re muddling along thanks. Your prayers are much appreciated, that’s so kind.
      How are your son and daughter doing?
      Many best wishes and prayers for you Gwin.
      Take care.
      Roger

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      1. We are all doing well Roger, thank you 🙂
        “Patchwork” has been a huge labor of love and teacher for you huh? LOL!!! I so admire your determination. It is an inspiration to me.

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      2. Too kind Gwin! 😃
        If you have a book within in you just let it loose to run around on paper (or laptop); it’s a great deal of fun. This one of mine came into shape because of the WP community with help, support and handy suggestions.
        I appreciated your comments when I was putting out chapters on the blog as that guided me, and sometimes stopped me going off in irrelevant directions! (always a problem for me). So you were one of the folk I credited in the book for being a great help! (Ron too).
        Just to let you know Trelli came through strong! 👍.
        Good to read you and yours are doing well, these are trying times for so many. Best wishes to you all!
        Roger

        Liked by 1 person

      3. Wow!!!! I am so honored! So, so honored!!!! Thank you Roger!
        I’m such a huge fan of your writing and you already know how I feel about Trelli and Migrin aka “The Migraine.” LOL!!!!
        Thanks for always creating and writing about women who are charismatic, smart and strong. Warmest regards, Gwin 🙂

        Liked by 1 person

      4. Thanks so much Gwin.
        Your affirmation means a great deal and keeps me keeping on. (Migran was changed to Wigran because of the number ‘M’s that kept cropping up…..but left him open to Karlyn’s crude wit, which is always fun to write…. I feel I know the three of them know; somewhere out there in Creation they must be about and I’m getting signals!!🙌)
        Vol II is under way

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