Hello USA. Let’s talk a bit.

So here we are. President Elect Donald Trump or if something unforeseen happens President Elect Mike Pence (at least I’m assuming that’s what happens if the original President Elect doesn’t make it to Inauguration Day). This and Brexit. Ah what does an old UK socialist, believer in the European Ideal, NATO, Environmental Controls have to say

Well as Al Smith (Governor of New York 4 times. Democrat candidate for pres 1928) said in his campaign against Hebert Hoover, ‘let’s look at the record’ (apparently, he used to say it a lot; he was in the era before a widespread vocal media, so it didn’t come across as a sound-bite or boring)

According to last information I saw the votes worked out as:

Donald Trump: 59,131,310

Hilary Clinton: 59,293,071

Apparently about 55% of the voting population. I won’t go into figures in any more depth, that only invites everyone to get in a fearful tangle of which figures count, which ones don’t and what the figures really mean. (Particularly if you look at them ‘this’ way)

In the UK we have a ‘first past the post system’ for who wins the constituency, differing from the USA electoral college, but both often seem to come out with similar votes. So about 25%- 30% of the voting population get to say how 100% of the whole population are governed. And unless you introduce a compulsory voting system with proportional representation added into the mix that’s roughly how democracy works.

In short a lot of people get disappointed, often badly.

I know, been there, all too often.

But also being in the UK, it’s not really my place to criticise what has taken place, I can’t to go around telling 59,000,000+ people ‘You’re all idiots!’ I don’t know your motivations; I’m not waiting in line for food-hand outs for example. On WP I have encountered Trump supporters who it would seem are from the more moderate thoughtful wing; they use the US constitution as a basis for their case and that can be respected, maybe not agree with but respected. Since FB is rarely on my ‘to go to list’, those on the wacko & racists wings have not polluted by laptop.

This I will say to those who voted for Mr Trump. Ok folks, your choice will be the President of the US in 2017. Now, your duty to your country from your standpoint is to try and convince by rational, logical, civilised and mature discourse everyone else why you feel this choice was a good one. It is also your duty to accept that folk will not agree with you and you must respect that too. Your country is a democracy. You all have this right. You must also ensure that those in your company who preach Hate, Intolerance and Bigotry of any sort are told why they are wrong or excluded from your company. Your country is only as strong as everyone working together. At the risk of sounding like a scare monger, there are parallels with the run up to 1861 here; there probably won’t be the resulting military conflict but a division in smaller nations is not inconceivable and that will leave you diminished. History is like that.

(Though you guys up in Oregon…put those guns away please, not a good idea, it may have worked in the 1770s but has had a pretty poor track record since then. OK you got away with one trial, that’s ‘cause the government played nice, this time, don’t count on that always. If you do feel that strongly some folk might recommend a dignified hunger strike.)

For those of you disappointed, dispirited, depressed, disillusioned and afraid. Yes, I understand; Thatcher’s Britain was no fun place for me or mine. We had to dig in. We tried not to turn on each other. In my government service job I bended rules which I saw fit to bend. Do not make the mistake of turning on someone just because they voted the other way; get to know them; if they prove to be unpleasant, bigoted or just plain wackos then, yeh don’t tolerate them. If you find you have a lot of common ground, work together. Thatcher did not believe in compromise….Junk!!….We all have to work together. Protest if you feel you must, but I would recommend dignity, silence, civility. It is hard to be critical or lampoon the one who stands there with dignity for their beliefs, who turns their anger into a firm solid quiet intention. My son put up a very wise statement on FaceBook as the first protests turned violent, referencing to the hatemongers who love this sort of thing “Don’t feed them. Starve them”. It is a common fact of elections that there are those who will become disappointed or disillusioned with their choice. Don’t jibe, jeer or ‘toldja’. Listen, convince them onto your side. Never give up. Nurture your communities. Work with each other. Work with ‘them’.

Anndd my post cannot be all conciliatory and measured commentary I have to have my rant

For all of you in the USA I would like to apologise for the usual UK crew of americaphobics. The ones who post up about Stupid America and Typical America…WTF???! There is no ‘typical’ America and as for ‘Stupid’…oh please by what chart do you denigrate at population of 200,000,000+?. One of the more embarrassing aspects of being a Brit (apart from, Soccer Hooligans & Personalities up set up camp in the US and blather) is listening to some ‘satirists’ ‘astute’ commentators or fashionable stand-up comics make ‘witty’ remarks about the US and in doing so display a lamentable ignorance of what makes your country groove-on; they come across as quite xenophobic & racist just trotting out and playing with folks’ prejudices (oh yes, and making money at the same time). Thus a sad number of folk who wish to appear political savvy repeat what they hear by rote, and having done that do sweet ‘Naff’ All about reaching out to US citizens….pathetic!!

I wish you all well.  I personally have ‘got your back’.

Hey! You Lot! Yeh Press…talkin’ to you!!

An Address To The Two Houses of….?

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42 thoughts on “Hello USA. Let’s talk a bit.

    • Thanks Simon.
      What with Brexit an the US Presidential I’ve had it up to ‘here’ with ill-informed, angry junk; irrespective of which side of the political spectrum.
      Sometimes I just have to surf amongst your ESA posts just to get my perspective back (That, and try and get my head around explanations on how you could in theory have 11 dimensions…. that’s fun).
      Take care
      Roger

      Liked by 1 person

      • It is about growing up. I’m not someone who takes the global warming theory at face value. I think man lays a part in a whole series of events. BUT I think we need to use our resources wisely and Trump wants to get rid of the US environment agency so that the foot can be put to the floor with industry again. So, we’re going to sacrifice the Earth for… money.

        Nice one.

        I’m trying to think when it is we’re going to work out that we can’t keep going like this and start valuing everything we have far more than we do and stop this throwaway culture.

        I’ll get off my soapbox now. lol

        Liked by 1 person

      • Good Soapbox Simon 👍!
        One of my interests is in the History of The Earth down the various eras and the effects that various events have had on life or the environment. Based on past evidence and that there are about 7.4 billion of us and currently making quite ruckus about it there is bound to be some sort of ramification unless we change our ways. Earth History was around long before Economics

        Liked by 1 person

      • To me the biggest thing is the waste of human life in commuting in this day and age, we earn money to spend to we can earn and we get taxed on that – that’s is an insanity!
        If a company tried to to that there would be all kinds of calls against profiteering and the like. But becasue it’s a government it’s ok.
        I’ve been thinking about this a lot recently and if we gave up money – the need for things and greed would disappear.
        The environment and so many other facets of existence suffer so that the top 1% or event 0.1% can keep their power. That is it.

        Liked by 1 person

      • Hi Simon,
        Having worked in the old HMIT (pre-HMRC) and being a stodgy socialist I could win the Gold medal for Boring by lecturing on the question of Taxation and Its Place in Society. So I’ll keep it brief: Some folks aren’t paying their fair wack.
        Over the years I read a few SF stories where societies ran without money, seemed to make sense.
        Our problem (ie us ordinary folk) is that so. much ‘wealth’ has been created by financial smoke & mirrors. (I mean be honest who actually has one billion pounds or dollars in physical real hands-in-yer-pocket terms etc), that The Powers Which Are simply would not allow any such thing, and we’ve all been told everything would collapse. So because we’ve been told it, it must be true…right?
        Right???

        Like

      • That’s the point. It’s about power not wealth. Its about controlling society. That’s why its screwed. A moneyless society could run very well for the benefit of everyone i think.

        Liked by 1 person

      • I know this and i also realise that if i were to take steps to realise this dream i would likely be shot.
        But… The kind of change that is unstoppable is the change that creeps up so slowly that you don’t realise its happening. Until its too late!

        Liked by 1 person

      • If we did have a society in which space travel was a common event and socities set up on other worlds?
        There could well be a massive re-alignment of human culture and thinking. Yes, it’s possible, maybe not straight away, but once it’s figured that the current financial systems cannot cope with the perceived costs

        Like

    • Thank you so much.
      I’ve met good folk on WP from all types of political, social, spiritual & non-spiritual. Everyone is either sharing their love or interest in the medium of the arts, explaining (note that word- not ‘screaming’) their beliefs or views and willing to exchange or simply chatting. It’s all good. Here I feel I can ‘talk’.
      Best wishes to you and yours
      Roger

      Liked by 3 people

  1. these people who goes to the streets are blinded by rage, thus creating nothing but pure stupidness. I do agree with you though, working together for a common goal and try “cooperation through unity”.

    Liked by 1 person

    • They are indeed blinded. Although on the Very Left of UK politics I’ve seen too many folk of similar views behave in a visceral and most repellent way, so currently I am politically homeless.
      We can only make our truly work if we share the burdens and accept the differences.

      Liked by 1 person

  2. Indeed… wonderful. Funny thing about those figures you mentioned (I wonder if they are correct, as I haven’t seen any “final” results yet)… But when I saw similar ones showing Trump at 47.7% of the popular vote and Clinton at 47.6% of the vote, my first thought was that the Electoral College actually works as it’s supposed to, though many are now up in arms about how.

    I watched the results as they came in, until it became apparent that Trump would win. And what I noticed was that most of Clinton’s support came from the most populous centers, and urban areas within individual states. The rest of the map (a vast, vast majority) was all Trump. If the popular vote (in numbers) were the sole determinant of election results, then only a very small geographic portion of our country would wind up deciding every election, regardless of how the vast majority (geographically) felt about it. Personally, I saw avoiding that outcome as one of the only “wins” for our country… lol!

    For urban centers have very different needs and expectations of government than smaller towns and rural areas. But all are essential to making our country what it is and needs to be. Because of that, we need some system in our democracy that ensures all people are fairly represented. The electoral college may not be perfect, and perhaps needs to be adjusted in some way so that the minority does not control the majority, but the idea seems worth salvaging if possible…

    Anyway… Thanks for the support. I believe we all live in a time of madness now, so seeking reasonable, rational justifications for what is happening is pointless and frustrating. And humor does help, even if I have to laugh at myself and my country!

    At least while I still can… 🙂

    Liked by 3 people

    • Hi there Lisa.
      Thanks so much for updating me with the breakdowns of votes and the overall stats.
      It would seem which ever system of voting is used the chances of the result being evenly representative of every part of the country is remote.
      I guess once the voting is over most of us think ‘Ah well I’ve done my bit. That’s it for another …… years’. This time may have passed, we may all have to knuckle down to the possibility that to make democracy truly work, like anything else it needs our constant attention and not just the well-organised pressure groups. Common ground and different views working together.
      And of course laughing as well, you are quiet right, that is so important! Particularly at ourselves 😄!
      Take care & best wishes
      Roger

      Liked by 2 people

  3. Thanks, we needed that.

    After watching in horror the other night as the rug got yanked out from under us, we (my wife and I) realized that we’re still masters of our own domain (not in the Seinfeld sense!) and will keep on keepin’ on with our happy life. One theory about the possibility of a Trump presidency before the fact was that it would expose the right’s inadequacies for once and for all. Not so sure about that. As with Maggie, they’ll do a lot of damage before people conclude it wasn’t a good idea to give them the reins.

    The. U.S. population, by the way, is now around 320 million, so it was 59 million of them (what is that, 18%?) who called the shots. Pretty scary. Especially since it was slightly more than that who said “No way!” to Trump.

    Keep watching. It’s gonna get weird over here!

    Liked by 3 people

    • Wow was I out of date with my stats on populations! If I keep on like this I’ll have to get a job as a talk show host!
      Keep on keeping on is the best solution, that’s what we’ve been doing in our household since Brexit.
      Democracy eh? Well at least the nation gets a chance to say ‘Whooops!’ every few years.
      I’m not so sure a Republican Pres, Republican Senate & Republican Congress are going to work as a monolithic group of buddies. (There is a story of the UK House of Commons- Parliament. There the seating arrangement is the two sides sit on opposing lines of benches. A government minister is talking to a new junior minster -they get to sit on the front bench- The junior minster looks across to the Opposition benches and says ‘Ah the Enemy’, his senior and more experienced colleague says ‘No those are the Opposition’ and gesturing back to where their own ambitious and disaffected party members sit says ‘That is the enemy’).
      Again, Democracy eh?

      Liked by 1 person

  4. There is definitely something rotten in the state of politics and the ground is shifting towards isolationism because we feel the need to stand up for mythic British/American values. You capture well these feelings, but rather than repeat myself, you might want to look at my flimsy comments to a post by ‘sonofjake.com’.

    Liked by 1 person

    • There seems to be some sort of undercurrent moving across Europe, which means that a vast number of people have either forgotten or not read their histories.
      Looking not that far back and the wreckage after WWII where some people get this idea that Hitler was a ‘great leader’ mystifies me; it normally takes a couple of centuries for the ‘Myth’ of a person to kick in.
      I will track down your comments to that post.
      Thanks
      Roger

      Like

  5. I wondered if we might have a Brexit – fear makes people do odd things. Germany was fond of Hitler… Great post, we will survive and I might escape across into Mexico before THE WALL is built. Maybe they won’t let us in…😟☮

    Liked by 2 people

    • Those on Capitol Hill who have played fast and loose with the ordinary folk of the USA might do well to consider Brexit. What happens if there is a sudden popular surge in one state to go its own way?
      They should now be re-visiting the words ‘Unity’ and ‘Compromise’ Or at least making a careful study of the coming turbulence of the UK Brexit-journey

      Liked by 1 person

  6. Roger. I think I was in my imaginary 1982 when you posted this so I apologize for being late.
    You already know how I feel so I won’t belabor the point. I’ve enjoyed reading the response that you’ve gotten here. I just so appreciate each person’s sentiment.
    I have to agree, WP is one of the few places where you can read a sensible and rational argument for or against.
    Excellent post!

    Liked by 1 person

  7. Neither the pundits nor anyone else have the answer to the election in this large and diverse USA, so many angles and simplifications exist on both sides. For Xmas I’m giving copies of the book “Hillbilly Elegy” — I haven’t read it myself yet. reviews I’ve seen maintain that its timeliness gives the best clue to understanding what’s happening now.

    Liked by 1 person

  8. I’ve been re-reading the comments on your blog, and although statistically they can hardly be called significant, there does seem a high degree of unanimity about Trump in particular and voting patterns determined by brands of prejudice rather than fact – what they appear to be calling ‘Post Truth’ – in general.
    This makes me wonder whether the conversation you had with Simon about a money-less society being desirable, would change much. Sure, today money is the most tangible currency and a simple way to make comparisons for all kinds of activity, but that won’t make our general desire to become something we are not – ambition – go away, nor the apparent competitiveness, and desire to convince others that our version of truth is the right one.
    The fundamental Labour notion of equity seems so self-evidently right, yet it can’t compete with selfishness, at least at the moment, and if politics is, in part, about the allocation of scarce resources, the current, inexorable trend to the Right suggests those resources will go to those who need them least.
    No doubt all of this simply reflects my own prejudices, but I ain’t letting go of them, even in the face of those who disagree. So there.

    Liked by 1 person

    • President Elect Trump is one of those characters who by their nature cause folk to have ‘opinions’, one way or the other. If I was eligible to vote in the US I would not have voted for him, because I do not feel a person who has only business experience and that in the limited field of property and entertainment has learnt the skills to handle a quite different game of national politics. There is an attraction no doubt and an urge to ‘kick the others out’ (nothing new there). I daresay we would all secretly like to see a world in which the scenarios of ‘Mr Smith Goes to Washington’ or ‘Dave’ play out. But in the hard world which we have always lived in I see little evidence. It will be interesting to see how the Trump Presidency plays out. Will he be his own man? Or that of his advisors? Or will accommodations be made with the Established system? It is hoped the majority of folk of the US turn their backs on the strident factions of all sides and start working together.
      Regarding Money & Socialism (always a combustible mix!).
      Money itself is established as we know. However what concerns me is the nebulous figures which have been created and the methods by which they have been brought into being. These seemed to be based on the wishes, desires if you would, of a relatively small number of people, without there being any true tangible solid items of value. I suppose these words come out as a kind of Fiscal Atheism. It may be the time for this system in the heavily populated and frenetic world of the Present and the Future to be allowed to morph of evolve into something which relies on the Tangible.
      Which brings me to Socialism. Now it is in my opinion, that were you to put a non-socialist in a room with five socialists and the former were to ask the latter to explain Socialism; the former would come out of the room with six different ideas of what constitutes Socialism; that was after the former had had to break up a fist-fight between two of the latter and another two had stormed out calling all the others ‘traitors’. Thus I have to say my own personal notion of Socialism does require a rather tougher storm of government, which although allowing ordinary folk to go about their individual ‘businesses’ would come down like the proverbial ton of bricks on anyone or group who tried to play fast and loose for greed; and I won’t ‘scare the horses’ by explaining my views on Law & Order when it comes to crimes of violence, physical, verbal or written; suffice it to say the Prison Service would be brought up to scratch. Civil Rights are earned by Civil Responsibilities In short, they can forget their V for Vendetta masks….. Somehow I don’t think I would have ever made to the Long List for Selection as an MP…..oh well, I can’t help being Intolerant about Intolerance.

      Like

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